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Nov 10 09 3:34 AM

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What do you guys think? The male is from overseas and the female I purchased on aquabid from a breeder in nc, but seems like a very weak strain. Both are about 4" and seem to get along great! My question is this...When they breed will the fry survive? I know that with ebjd and ebjd usually the fry die. But my female looks so much like a reg dempsey. But she use to be completely blue.
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EBJazz

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Posts: 171 BG/EB Specialist badge

#1 [url]

Nov 10 09 10:59 AM

Conformation of the female is very nice. The reason she is darkening is because she is either getting close to maturity/spawning or is merely more dominant than the male.

The only conformation problem with the male is some forehead pinching near the eyes, which leads to a beak nose appearance - this is the most common EB deformity and varies in degree, often shows up late as they mature and worsens as the EB gets older.

An EB without a pinched forehead is rare and usually a quality breeder (see my avatar - he was a nice one).

Forget EBxEB though.

If the fry survive past a week or two it will be close to a first. Even if you get one or two to live I suspect the deformities will be extreme. The blue genetics of the EB carry weakness that is amplified to the point of being fatal if crossed EBxEB.

I have even found that those EBs produced from EBxBG or BGxBG where the BGs came from an EBxBG spawn tend to have health problems and deformities.

The healthiest EBs I have produced and raised came from BGxBG where each of the BGs were quite unrelated and came from EBxJD crosses.

Experience convinces me that the farthest you can keep the blue genetics apart in breeding EBs produces the healthiest EBs, suggesting that the EB genetics carry a lot of weakness.

I hold very little hope for success in this attempt.

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#2 [url]

Nov 10 09 9:28 PM

Re: ebjd pair

jagz wrote:
What do you guys think? The male is from overseas and the female I purchased on aquabid from a breeder in nc, but seems like a very weak strain.


Who was the breeder in NC?

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#3 [url]

Nov 10 09 11:41 PM

Shawn is the breeder in nc. I bought 4 ebjd's from him that were mostly blue when I got them, but now look like regular dempseys. I have had them for about 3 months now.

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#4 [url]

Nov 10 09 11:54 PM

Thanks for the info ebjazz.I'm sure you're exactly right when it comes to the outcome of the fry. But will you look at this picture of the male dempsey and elaborate on the forehead pinching. This particular male doesn't seem to have any beak face going on. In fact his head shape is quite nice, even for a reg dempsey.
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#5 [url]

Nov 11 09 1:46 AM

jagz wrote:
Shawn is the breeder in nc. I bought 4 ebjd's from him that were mostly blue when I got them, but now look like regular dempseys. I have had them for about 3 months now.


Right!... we've had this discussion before on another thread. The 5 I have now are getting a bit bluer, still very pale though.

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EBJazz

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#7 [url]

Nov 11 09 4:26 AM

Re: ebjd pair

It may be the angle of the shot, but the photo below shows the "pinching" better. Notice just above the male's eye how the forehead has a pinch to it, sort of sunk in a bit. Then look at the female in this picture and notice the smooth transition from the lips to the dorsal fin - smooth all the way, highly desirable conformation.

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If it does not develop and remains but a definition of the forehead bump then it might be ok, but there is a chance that it could pinch even tighter. If you cross him with a good female JD that has a smooth and round forehead then the BGs may not carry the pinching characteristic.

It is a hard characteristic to eliminate in EBs and sometimes even in BGs. Yet JDs rarely seem to develop the pinching. The EB genetics must bring that weakness to the fore. I have seen it crop up in many EBs as they mature.

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#8 [url]

Nov 11 09 5:43 AM

It is that particular angle. But he does have a nice forehead bump.If you look at the second picture from the top you can really see the profile.

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EBJazz

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#10 [url]

Nov 11 09 6:39 PM

jagz wrote:
check out this finnage.


I agree - it is very nice. Do you have any high quality JDs for your EB males and EB females?

I have a batch of JDs from two of the most amazing JDs I have ever owned. When I get some time at home I will post their pictures. The fry are about two months old now, but I know they are the kind of JD that will help create very good quality BGs.

Anyone who wants some of them can have them for free. I have several hundred and only need 5-10 of them for my breeding lines.

You would have to wait 3-4 months before they would breed, but they are great quality.

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#12 [url]

Dec 20 09 3:13 AM

I'd take some too!

I think the male has a very nice head shape. He doesn't look beaked out to me at all. Usually the beak is in between the eyes and nose, but the kink in this male is above the eye, and is most likely from his nuachal hump.

Don't breed blue to blue. It will result in the fry dying before becoming free swimming. The only person I've ever heard of to raise fry to free swimming and beyond is a member on here who said the adults were severely deformed and he eventually culled them. It is not a good idea and goes directly against what good breeders are trying to accomplish with the variety.

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